Treehugger - Latest Comments in Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Nick — Wed, 20 May 2009 14:52:16 -0000

Forgive me if this has already been said - I didn't read through all the comments, but I found this quite depressing. The justifications for getting the SUV were so flimsy.

Leaving aside the explanation for why to get any new car, the decision to get the SUV came down to two factors, at least as the faux interview presents it:

1) Having enough space to transport a dishwasher and the extended family when they come to visit.

2) The perception of safety.

Regarding the space issue, as some of the comments I did read pointed out, you don't often transport dishwashers, or indeed anything else that you couldn't fit into a Prius. In a response to one comment, the author talks about needing to transport groceries and so on. As someone who does all the shopping - groceries, and lumber - for a family of three in a car SMALLER than a Prius, I can state with certainty that it is not a problem. When we need to move something bigger, we get a van or pickup from a car share company, rental agency or a friend. The same when extended family comes to town. This is a much more sensible approach to meeting the occasional need for a bigger vehicle than driving the bigger vehicle all the time just because of those occasional occasions.

As for the safety issue, as the author points out, it was just a perception thing. And that perception thing has a dark side. Studies have shown that SUV drivers tend to be more risky in their driving because of that perception. And any safety advantage for the passengers INSIDE the SUV is offset by the greater risk to people outside the SUV. Other studies have looked at the higher rates of accidents involving pedestrians, and the more serious injuries to people in cars that are involved in accidents with SUVs.

Instead of this faux interview, where the author doesn't really push himself on anything, it might have been nice to see a real interview with someone who might have challenged the author on his decision. (Any interviewer would have probed that perception of safety thing - did the author actually research the safety issue, or just go with his feelings?)

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Treehugger's Shame — Sun, 17 May 2009 10:29:20 -0000

Seriously...

You haven't fired this guy yet?

* EPA-estimated mpg 20/27/23 (city/highway/combined 2WD) and 20/26/22 (city/highway/combined 4WD).

No, we're a site that pretends to care about the environment because it's hip, trendy and we can sound impressive while we're at cocktail parties with other Yuppies about how WE'RE SAVING the world.

Also, we're here to make money, don't expect us to make personal sacrifices in our lives, WE CARE about the environment - didn't you read all our self-righteous articles about how to save the planet?

How Treehugger jumped the shark...

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Ian — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:45:29 -0000

I think it's a very bad idea to go for something that feels safer when you know it isn't. Same with cycle helmets.

Because you have this thing that *feels* safer (helmet, or car height) you take more risks without realising it and ultimately you are less safe.

It does indeed come under the do as I say not as I do, but I think that kind of self-righteous preaching has done more to alienate people from the climate movement than attract them. We should not be depoliticising the issue and pretending that virtuous individual action will help keep the climate stable.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:12:38 -0000

hey this is great a whole bunch of people criticizing one guy for doing what he felt was right. Fabulous.

You do not judge a man or his actions unless you have been in his situation.

Everybody can go on and on about green this and green that, but when it comes down to the hard actual decision making, reality hits. sure he may need to cart a dishwasher once or twice in maybe a decade. Its and example. not factor in te fact that cyclists are having a a bad baad time on the roads. y?? road rage, rash driving and don't give a flying f**k attitude.

lay off him will ya!

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

RH — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:55:58 -0000

I know it's been awhile on this, but I just wanted to add in my story. My husband and I are expecting a child and will need to buy a new car (the ones we have now are both 10 year old 2 doors). We also have two medium/large dogs who can take up a fair bit of space when traveling. Our ideal car would be a station wagon, and I have looked at *every* wagon on the market. In general they all get around the same mileage as the CR-V, with some exceptions (Fit, Matrix) which have far less cargo space. The CR-V also gets excellent safety and emissions ratings. Basically, crossover SUV's *are* station wagons - at least in the US where there are very few true wagons on the market. I find it ironic that people would probably have found the purchase of a Subaru wagon less offensive, when the CR-V does just as well (if not better, depending on model) on gas, and has the same safety and reliability ratings. My point is you need to judge a car based on it specs, not whether or not it looks like a dreaded SUV. Personally I find it hard to consider anything with 4 cylinders a typical SUV. Also, the hybrid SUV's currently on the market do not get all that great of mileage, and are not considered to be very reliable.

If anything MJO should be applauded on his incredibly low annual mileage, not shunned for buying a car that moderately resembles a gas guzzler in appearance alone. I think that many people who posted negatively have not really researched what is on the market in the US these days - until we get more options the CR-V is about as good as he was going to do.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

caroline — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:07:42 -0000

Hi new here. I'm really trying hard to understand your reasoning but I guess I never will since it's your own personal thought process.

As for myself, I owned a Honda Pilot and it got to the point where I was embarrassed to drive it. I traded it in for a used Prius. I live in a rural area in the northeast and if anyone needs four wheel or all wheel drive it's me. But I chose the Prius anyway, and we've been making it fine. I just change to snow tires in the Winter. Whenever I need to haul something big I rent a truck from Home Depot. I have three kids and they fit fine in the back seat. My oldest is nine years old but has the height of a 12 year old. My husband made the comment that it would be uncomfortable and how we may need the space and I just said, you know what, we're just kickin' it old school.

Caroline

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 May 2008 03:01:42 -0000

How Green® of you. Heck it is no different the Sierra Club gloating about the lastest "hybrid SUVs" and how great they are. Really the only solution is to re-green and re-wild and go back to the way we used to be humans and nature and animals living in harmony, and it will take small steps but inventing new technology that is Green® is not really going to help but looking to the past will!

[with the oil running out, I certainly think you're right - that's where we are headed mjo]

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

darcylu — Thu, 29 May 2008 12:14:30 -0000

2 of my most key points were left out in my previous post - I was interrupted while reading it over and rush posted it (we had to drive our old van to trade cars with our daughter's saturn - she's moving this weekend and this van comes in handy, but then so does the Prius)

POINT 1 - I said: "My daughter - drives an '00 Saturn SC2 (runs well and she wants to buy a Prius when she gets out of grad school. Her car is way too low, even for her, and she feels SO much safer in our mini-van"

I meant to add: BUT she feels just as safe driving the Prius, because it rides so much higher up than many cars.

She loves the Prius, and took a course at Clark University about the environment, and finally understood why I ordered it 6 months in advance back in 2004. She "loves" her Saturn, it was her first car. But she LOVES everything about the Prius. She actually has gotten better mileage driving it on long trips than I have on the same routes, the brat ;-). My husband used to call us liars that we routinely got 53 mpgs on our long commutes to college from home base (per tankfull) Now he drives the Prius to Maine since selling his Passat to my son, and he took a picture with his phone/camera the first time he got over 54mpg per tankful, not just 1 or 2 legs of a trip, but multiple highway trips and city/backroad driving. Now he complains about people at work who don't believe HE gets over 54 mpg every day/all day, even though he shows them the picture. EVERYONE LIES ABOUT the ACTUAL CAR MILEGE THEIR CARS GET, but our experiences with the Prius are what they are and they are so real.

POINT 2 - I said: "I - am a married, 51 (add YEAR OLD) mother of 2 college grads"

I meant to also add: which means that I had ample experience moving the kids in and out of dorm rooms, then apartments for the last 7 years - every 6 months for 6 years - OMG. Yes the van was helpful, but it is amazing what you can get in the Prius. My husband always said "that won't fit" and I proved him wrong OVER and OVER and OVER. Not queen size mattresses, but you can keep stuffing it in.

I will miss the mini-van when we finally decide to stop putting money into it, but it is 14 years old, we are not mechanics, and it is in good enough shape that someone might be able to put it to some use or not, whatever. Everything dies.

POINT 3 - But the Prius is addictive. It is my zen car. I use to be a very aggressive driver, and now if I have to drive anywhere, I relax and just enjoy the ride, because the more I relax, the better gas mileage I get. It's a win/win situation.

When I replace the van, we will look for better alternatives, and I hope there are more (even better) options. But overall, ALL things considered, the Prius is simply the only game in town today. I haven't regretted for a second getting it. My husband finally has accepted it totally as well. His Passat used premium gas, it's a standard (so 30mpgs). I never understood why he didn't by a 2002 Prius, but it was the first car he bought for HIMSELF that he loved. In 2002 gas prices and the environment weren't big issues to anyone but us true treehuggers (he fooled me for years, what can I say?). He sure enjoys driving an automatic again, but he just isn't a treehugger in his soul like me. But he sure does love to save lots of money NOW with MY good old Prius.

POINT 4 - I almost forgot cold weather driving on short trips (before the engine warms up) bring the mpgs on the Prius way down. Going to my gym in the winter 5 min. away used to be a killer - so if I mostly drove 5 min trips between fillups, it was hard (below 44 degrees F) to get better than 37mpgs in the winter. Still not too bad, but not great for a Prius. Now, with my MS I don't go to the gym, I get exercise in my lifestyle day to day for free AND I don't waste the gas driving to the gym. Again it's a win/win situation.

MJO - okay, I am done. Peace. This whole thing just hit us treehuggers in the gut, because as it turns out, we really can't help it. It is truly in our hearts and souls to be treehuggers. It isn't a personal choice for us anymore - it is just simply who we are. We feel safe here (even though people can be very negative and judgemental anywhere) we just got the wind knocked out of us a little. So people can make fun of us, call us fringe lunatics (poor Rachel Ray - ANOTHER reason not to waste those coffee cups from Dunkin Donuts), we just want to be the best people we can be, a little better than yesterday. This wasn't personal against you, but it just reminds us all that we all have so far still to go, even here. When we think of all the people out there who are TOTALLY unaware, it's more than just a little daunting.

But YES, WE CAN GET THIS DONE!! OKAY!

Truly, truly Peace to you and your family.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

darcylu — Wed, 28 May 2008 17:30:22 -0000

mjo - you are a treehugger staffer. You don't call yourself a "green writer" but a "writer on environmental issues"

mjo - you live in-town Boston (I live in MA, know the traffic, the climate, the laws)

mjo - your wife rides the bus to work, you telecommute, you drive 6000k/yr [miles mjo]

mjo - you have a family of three

mjo - you don't like VWs, Saturns

mjo - you actually test drove a Prius, but decided it didn't fit your "needs"

mjo - you buy a lot of stuff that needs transporting (or maybe you sell/trade/donate said stuff, I don't know)

mjo - you didn't write your article for people who lived and breathed the tree-hugging life, looking for inspiration to make better decisions than they had in the past, people who already know how easy it is to justify every decision, but want to do better next time, people who try to lead by example which is better than 1000 words (I just read this on the treehugger site today - in the article about the environmental award winning people either fighting Chevron/Texaco in the Amazon or trying to save severe soil erosion in Mexico - very, very inspirational)

mjo - you wrote your article for those real, actual people who had real lives, who had to make real decisions about car buying, people who had to make real life decisions, about their safety and their families - you know, for all those real people out there, those real people out there working, and living and dying in this real world, not for those silly Prius loving treehuggers, but REAL PEOPLE making REAL DECISIONS. These are the people who are making the important decisions about the environment anyway, and who vote in Presidents and everything. It's all for the real people who have to make those practical real decisions in this world.

I read every posting, and I reread your original self-interview several times to clarify every point.

I am sitting here and my eyes keep tearing up, because I feel I have to post this comment, and I know you''ll make some comment like "I hope you don't sacrifice too much" or something like you did to one poster.

I - am a married, 51 mother of 2 college grads

I - drive a 14 yo mini-van with a check engine light on that has to pass inspection in Sept. but I have no commute and it is handy for large purchases, and for really large items we rent a U-haul open trailer for $14. If the van costs too much to fix, I should think about pre-ordering another Prius soon. There isn't a lot of choice out there today

My husband - drives an '04 Prius (over 53mpgs per fill-up) to work in Maine twice a week.

My daughter - drives an '00 Saturn SC2 (runs well and she wants to buy a Prius when she gets out of grad school. Her car is way too low, even for her, and she feels SO much safer in our mini-van

My son - who lives in-town Portland, Maine walked to work for 2 years, but recently bought my husband's '02 Passat that had a recall for a sludge issue years ago, it has 100k on it, and no problems at all. He is 6'1" and complains about the lack of extra head room sitting in the back seat of the Prius, but the leg room is fine. We always forget to let him drive, the rest of us are 5'6, 5'8 and 5'11 and don't mind sitting back there.

I - have MS and while I can no longer garden on my back hill without mostly crawling, I am making bio-logs by twining together cut stems from overgrown trees and bushes in our yard, to prevent soil erosion and help preserve rain to water new plantings on the severely dry hill. We have a large patch that will just not support any growth, and I had given up on it, but then I found this link on the treehugger website. I wish I had found it 16 years ago when we moved in. There wasn't a blade of grass or even a tree, barely a few inches of top soil on over an acre. But I have planted native plants, built rock walls, a little drought-tolerant grass and lots of ground covers. Bio-logs are the best solution all around (soil conservation vs burning the stems, or shredding them in our gas powered chipper shredder)

I have lived this tree-hugger life, but now I think I will rethink my love for this website. I am wasting precious time on my computer. I just bought a new energy efficient laptop. But I still have 2 months to decide if I want to keep it.

I think you have helped me more than you'll ever know. I will sleep on it, but I really should decide, one way or another, about getting solar panels for the roof, and really limiting my use of electricity by shutting off this stupid computer and walking the walk even more instead of doing a lot of reading by people like you who are just talking the talk.

Boy - I kind of feel like I've been a little too gullible at this website. I'll live. At my age, nothing surprises me.

Hey, thanks for everything. It's been real. Enjoy your new great deal on that SUV crossover. WHAT a deal!

[thanks for the honesty mjo]

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Ruri — Mon, 26 May 2008 03:12:43 -0000

He got a CRV it's more a minivan then an SUV though an actual mini van also is a good and often neglected option.

Though if you want a real SUV there is the hybrid Yukon

pricey but if you really feel you need a real truck it does get decent millage about 22mpg 50% better then non hybrids in it's size class.

Though one thing that is often missing in todays offerings for people who just want a little more cargo capacity is the station wagon though vehicles like the Chevy HHR and Scion Xb partly fill this and are good choices.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

cameron — Sat, 24 May 2008 23:52:48 -0000

Give your affirmation of Dan's post, I'll try again:

Comments have said:

"Why didn't you join zipcar or another car-sharing service? They offer minivans and pick-ups for exactly the situations you mention here...If you really don't drive that much, and you live in an urban area (as you wrote you do), car-sharing makes a lot more sense (and can be a LOT cheaper) than buying/owning a car. I'm curious why you didn't address this...

May 19, 2008 5:25 PM

"Boston has zipcar, which means you need a truck for something you got it, for an hour or 24.

May 19, 2008 5:58 PM

On this, your only response has been:

"[yes, groceries; our experience is that many people in cities buy cars for two reasons - transporting laundry and groceries. Taxis, buses, Zipcar, etc. just don't cut it in the long run. mjo]

May 19, 2008 11:14 PM"

Please provide a more comprehensive response: does 'cut it' refer to financial, convenience, sustainability?

Or are you merely concurring with the much more useful comment (and insightful sustainable design brief) by neshura (which would imply you have toddler-aged kids):

"It really is non-trivial for a mother (or a father) to walk half a mile or more while transporting a child, a personal bag with food and/or bottle(s) and diapers and wipes, AND a child safety seat -- to the location of a Zipcar. If you have a stroller, perhaps you try to sling the car seat over your shoulder while not steering the stroller into the street.

If you don't, you have to figure out how to contain a small child in a parking lot or loose in a car while you fumble away with straps attempting to get the carseat correctly tied down.

I have been racking my brains trying to get a solution to this.

(incidentally, my family of 3 maintains Zipcar memberships because it gives us access to occasional truck use and daytrips from work for my carless spouse; the Honda CRV we have hasn't been big enough to handle cargo such as boxed appliances, or loads of mulch.)

May 20, 2008 10:45 AM

[now this is a great question, because it really gets to the root of the issue. So, the question is about Zipcar with three items - financial, convenience, sustainability.

Financially, Zipcar is not cheap; $9-11 an hour, or $75-85 a day. This is more expensive than a typical company such as Enterprise, which can deliver the vehicle to your door, and they are often $29 a day on weekends when Zipcar costs more. So, I find their business model to be less efficient.

Convenience-wise, the nearest car to us is about a mile away. Similar to the lady in the above posting, we can find no easy way to cover that distance on a regular basis.

Sustainability has no formalized definition, but I'll try and answer anyway. Zipcar probably has trained mechanics to maintain their fleet which will prolong their life; I think this is a plus, however, I doubt you will find a Zipcar more than a few years old (people won't rent them), and you certainly won't find one that's a junker and unsafe to drive. We keep our car in excellent condition as well. The car sharing idea is definitely a good idea, and Zipcar is implementing it well. This is detracted from somewhat as I believe (no proof) that rentals are usually abused more than owned cars.

Zipcar is a business; they buy and place cars to turn a profit, by filling a void in transportation requirements for a lot of people. With their changing rates on the weekends, it's clear that there is a strong profit motive, which I don't think detracts in any way from their service - good for them. Ultimately though, we were outside their targeted audience.

mjo]

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Dan — Sat, 24 May 2008 14:52:47 -0000

I have to say that I find the almost blanket condemnation you are getting over this purchase a little ridiculous.

It seems to me that your habits are a lot like mine, the car is parked during the week while you and your spouse, much like mine use public transit to get around everywhere. We live in a city with an excellent metro system and horrible traffic.

Once or twice a week you need to get to the store or to home depot or two your parents house, or to collect the furniture you find on the street and plan to recover and restore, and usually these trips require space. That’s when you use the car, so when people make the argument "how often do you need the space" they have missed the point, we primarily only use the car when 'we need the space.' I have a 92 accord that I intend to drive into the ground before I get a new vehicle and it is great on gas but I can't even get a chair into it without some complex maneuvering and putting a dent in the ceiling when I had to get it out. Plus we tried to put some roof racks on it but the roof design didn’t actually allow it. Having a CRV, (which considering it’s gas mileage and size is more of a jacked up sedan in my opinion) seems like a reasonable idea. Blanket condemnation of a car because of its type is silly, you condemn a car based on its statistics, 25mpg does not a gas guzzler make.

While I agree that a hybrid SUV might have been a better choice.. it is possible that you decided a car company with a history of longevity to its vehicles was a better idea. Is it likely that the ford hybrid will have a better maintenance rating then other members of the ford family... I doubt it.

On a side not I would also say that anyone who drives more then 6000km a year really shouldn’t be throwing any stones in this discussion. Plus people need to remember that this article isn’t supposed to be a justification, it is an article about the real life choices that someone had to make.

Plus last time I checked it was illegal to ride a donkey around town.

[omg, you may have a second career as a mind reader, because you inferred every single point that I had in this posting. mjo]

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Matt — Fri, 23 May 2008 11:54:01 -0000

Alright.

I agree with the Crossover purchase.

They may, still be SUV's, but it's better than buying a suburban.

CR-V's get about 25 MPG.

Not the best, but not terrible.

I mean, it's better than a PT Cruiser! (20mpg)

And to the person going on about getting a Matrix, they get 25mpg. THE SAME as a CR-V. I know this from personal experience: my step mother has one.

I think the CR-V was a good choice.

It's a small SUV that doesn't get 10MPG.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

cameron — Fri, 23 May 2008 10:59:58 -0000

MJO, Respond to the questions about carshare, like Zip.

I would be worried about a sustainable business consultant that didn't even contemplate something like the functional sales/service economy alternative.

[cmon, read the thread mjo]

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

kat — Thu, 22 May 2008 17:12:55 -0000

the best thing you can do for the environment transportation-wise does not have to do with what kind of car you buy, but with moving closer to work. Mark has already done this - he works from home and his wife uses public transportation. the criticism regarding his choice of vehicle is unfair - if we all averaged 6,000 miles per year we'd do a lot more to cut emissions than if we all switched over to hybrids, clean diesels, etc.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

John Taylor — Thu, 22 May 2008 06:39:51 -0000

When Treehugger buys an SUV “because if felt safer” even though he KNOWS it isn't, then we see why those who aren't so green informed tend to buy these guzzlers.

Rationalize it all ya want, they got ya Treehugger, and every time you ride your SUV, look in the mirror, you will know why our environment in in trouble.

At least you bought one of the less obnoxious SUVs.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Todd — Thu, 22 May 2008 02:02:11 -0000

The 2008 CR-V gets decent mileage, 20 in the city and 26 on the highway, but the Prius makes that look really bad at 48 city and 45 highway. You can compare both these cars on my site, hybridvsgas.com. It's definitely a personal choice, but with gas prices still on the rise, and oil at over $134/barrel our choices may be getting much more limited.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Robert Janca — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:54:38 -0000

How I would love to be positive about your choice. It is certainly true that a Honda CRV is a good choice overall and is not a gas hog... but your "old" vehicle only had 75,000 miles on it and was suffering from what? a check engine light? Here is what I would have done:

1) buy a vacuum guage and check the vacuum in each of the cylinders - cost about $50 and anyone can learn how in an hour or less.

2) Give the vehicle a tune up or pay a shop to do it. At least identify the fatal flaw that your vehicle has. A red idiot light does not a faulty vehicle make.

[the shop did these things - did a smoke test, reset the computer, changed a fuel valve, cleaned the air sensor. Unfortunately you cant pass inspection in MA with a check engine light on. mjo]

The best way we can all become more green is by learning to repair and maintain what we have instead of joining the throw it away and buy something new crowd. Perhaps you can buy a Chiltons repair manual for your CRV and read through it like you would a good book. The mystery under the hood does not have to be a source of fear for anyone. Great site & keep up the excellent work!

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

megoneill — Wed, 21 May 2008 15:49:12 -0000

Note from the editor: The comments for this post were temporarily turned off but have been turned back on.

[people, this is a long thread; please read it before posting. If you find you can add something, great, but try to avoid duplication. As usual, the non-intelligent and non-civil postings will be removed mjo]

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Jason — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:36:33 -0000

Maybe this has already been added but the right small car has a lot of space. I am partial to VW, but my golf seats 5 (I am 6ft 3in and fit in the back), the seats fold down (I have never put a dishwasher in it, but lots of other big stuff fits) and it gets over 30mpg (not super great, but better than any SUV).

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Mark Kiernan — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:34:33 -0000

What the hey? I drive a car which is more than suitable for a family of four not three.

Here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

I get about 3.8litres of diesel per 100kms. I think the idea of getting an SUV is just crazy. My car has 4 stars on European crash tests. SUVs make me sick.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

BadWolf13 — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:27:24 -0000

I must add one thing that I see constantly on Treehugger and really really grates at me.

My number one pet peeve is city dwellers who tell people its unconscionable to live in the country because city life is SO much greener. Yes, SO green that by virtue of living in one with a family of three the purchase of an SUV is necessitated--give me a break. I'll ride my bike down the country roads all i want while you guzzle a few gallons to transport all that lumber and all those dishwashers a couple miles. I know people will disagree with me on this but I have to say it since I don't see that perspective represented here often enough.

Oh and, there's also this thing called "delivery," in which businesses deliver large appliances to the homes of non SUV owning customers. They'll even bring it inside!

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Alex Schoenfeldt — Tue, 20 May 2008 11:56:31 -0000

By the way, according to energy efficiency expert Ampry Lovins, there is NO correlation between the weight of a car and its safety.

Bigger cars ARE safer. Heavier cars are not.

The Rocky Mountain Institute has designed a crossover sized car out of light materials, so it is big and light; safe and efficient.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Dawn — Tue, 20 May 2008 11:12:21 -0000

This article is a fairly well-written, but unconvincing, apology for a lamentable decision. Hey, it's your life, and your choice, but by the very act of posting your story, you seem to be asking other treehuggers for endorsement, for us to accept your feeble rationalizations. No dice.

[seems so mjo]

How often do you tote dishwashers around? Have you ever thought about asking for the help of a friend/neighbor who has a truck, and doing a reciprocal favor? Isn't that what treehugging is all about: pooling existing resources, reducing consumption, scaling back?

[now I am the guy with the resource mjo]

I think you've bought into the fear and "me first" thinking of our consumerist culture. You offer no data on, but just a vague "feeling" about, the SUV's supposed safety:

"I don't know why this is exactly; you are up a little higher, it is heavier; you sort of feel that if you get hit, mass will be on your side."

Could it be because you've swallowed the hype?

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Joe — Tue, 20 May 2008 10:45:37 -0000

You say ... "But as it turned out, these vehicles didn't fit our needs."

Well, a packed 737 with no legroom and inflexible schedule doesn't fit my needs, so I'll opt for the Cessna Citation on my next trip.

I support your decision, but of course, it will be construed, rightly so as "do as I say, not as I do". We live in a market driven economy and this is what happens when options are available to choose from.