These are very videly used in some countries, free + eco friendly energy
aridgreen
· 2 years ago
Correction...Turbine has a hub height of 124 meters - significantly taller than a 3 story building.
Adrian Akau
· 2 years ago
Wind energy is only a piece of the clean energy puzzle.
The very nature of power intermittancy with wind, PV and concentrated solar means that these technologies need to be complemented by the more continuous Geothermal, wave and ocean current sources. Wind energy extraction at altitudes high above ground level also needs careful scutiny.
The law of diminishing returns applies to the size of wind turbines as it does to all machinery so we have to think ahead. Bigger may not always prove better.
Presently, dependency on coal and nuclear is necessary as a back-up for wind power but there is no reason to believe that this dependency will last after the clean energy puzzle has been completed.
adrianakau@aol.com
speedmaster
· 2 years ago
As they get larger, do these wind turbines show increased efficiency? For example, does making one twice as large produce more than twice as much electricity? Or are there diminishing returns?
I imaging the answer to that question would drastically change the best way to engineer and space them out.
As they get larger, do these wind turbines show increased efficiency? For example, does making one twice as large produce more than twice as much electricity? Or are there diminishing returns?
I imaging the answer to that question would drastically change the best way to engineer and space them out.
I /thought/ that nacelle looked a bit like the Gherkin (sideways)!
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
no energy plant is eco-friendly. People have thought burning fuels doesn't mean anything, until oncology showed the reverse (climate impact yet to be determined too). Same with wind, taking that energy out of the air (with evergrowing number of the wind turbines) we don't know where we end up in a hundred of years from now. Always remember about the "butterfly effect".
PENIX
· 2 years ago
Wind turbines STEAL jobs from power plant workers. Wind turbines are bad for the economy, and a strain on our delicate environment!
Wolf Zombie
· 2 years ago
I have to agree with Adrian Akau. The unpredictability of wind only makes it a supplement to conventional means of energy.
Wolf Zombie
ccZaphod
· 2 years ago
Talk about butterfly coughing in China -- if these were widespread wouldn't they take enough energy out of the wind currents to alter global climate? Is
Benny
· 2 years ago
WOW
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
" Talk about butterfly coughing in China -- if these were widespread wouldn't they take enough energy out of the wind currents to alter global climate?"
Short answer: No.
Longer answer: Everything affects wind. Trees, hills, buildings, mountains, etc. Wind turbines are a very very very very very very very small part of the obstacles to wind on Earth.
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
"Wind turbines STEAL jobs from power plant workers. Wind turbines are bad for the economy, and a strain on our delicate environment!"
What a bunch of crap!
Global warming is going to be very bad for the economy, and new clean technologies are creating tons of jobs in R&D, manufacturing, implementation and maintenance.
Welcome to a capitalist system; creative destruction cleans the things that aren't needed anymore and creates new jobs. There are less candle makers now, but that's not a bad thing.
Kris
· 2 years ago
The story about the town is pretty incredible. I'd like to see more installations like that in the US.
Matt Damon
· 2 years ago
To those who are ranting about the climate effect of these turbines. How much wind do you think a skyscraper alters, or an entire city of skyscrapers? Like New York City? Hardly turbines will affect negatively the environment. And wind forced turbines don't "steal" wind, it is merely passed through the rotor blades, and emitted again through the back.
seb
· 2 years ago
this is not possible 112 meter diameter you mean 11.2 meter in the second pic the housing is has big as the building below , and that is about 11meter or so.
Drew
· 2 years ago
While wind energy is very green, there is an ecological impact if the turbine is places in the flight path of any migratory birds. They will be cut to shreds trying to follow their internal compasses during their annual migrations.
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
"While wind energy is very green, there is an ecological impact if the turbine is places in the flight path of any migratory birds. They will be cut to shreds trying to follow their internal compasses during their annual migrations. "
Actually, that's not quite exact.
Modern big wind turbines spin very slowly. While it is true that some birds can be killed during collisions with turbines, that is a tiny fraction of birds killed compared to house cats, automobiles and buildings (mostly windows). A very tiny fraction.
The other aspect is that pollution (air, water.. food chain) also kills lots of birds, so does habitat destruction and global warming. Turbines are a net positive for birds and wildlife in the vast majority of cases.
DutchPDX
· 2 years ago
The myths around wind power are staggering. Stealing Wind? Killing Birds? These are all fears that have been propagated by big oil and coal companies. It's true that the economy will change, but imagine large wind turbine manufacturing plants in the USA. LOTS of new jobs! There are cities on earth that are almost uninhabitable because of smog/air pollution. Wind turbines are a BIG part of the answer.
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
this is not possible 112 meter diameter you mean 11.2 meter
It actually is 112 meters. Yes. You read that well. If you are still not believing it, go to the other link provided in the article about a 126 m diameter turbine. If those pics won't convince you, then nothing will.
Michael Smalley
· 2 years ago
On the subject of the best use of space, wouldn't it make a ton of sense to lount solar panels to the turbines so that even more energy can be collected when there is wind, and a smaller amount of supplementary energy could be collected when there isn't any wind?
Why hasn't anyone thought of this? Am I mistaken?
Paweł Boraca
· 2 years ago
@Chris - You are right and wrong at the same time. When we increase diameter 2x, the power increases 4x (in ideal case) and when speed of wind increases 2x the power increases 8x. So when rotor is 2x bigger, power is more than 2x higher but it's not due to increase of efficiency but quadratic proportion of radius to power.
x means times
srx for my bad english
Nick Kasoff
· 2 years ago
Wind turbines STEAL jobs from power plant workers. Wind turbines are bad for the economy, and a strain on our delicate environment!
Well, all those power plant workers can get jobs as windmill workers. Sounds like more fun to me anyway.
Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report
Lex
· 2 years ago
Actually, I own the wind. Wind turbines are STEALING from ME! Now I'll have to unleash another major hurricane. Silly mortals.
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
So, uh, don't put it in the way of migration flight paths. Should be easy enough to do - just ask the local birdwatchers. :)
blaster
· 2 years ago
Its about time a gearless machine came into play.Having worked at the big dog of turbine producers I can tell you a hydrolic leak on these machines can "paint" everything behind them.Throw some shreded paper(to simulate the leak) in a fan and you will get the picture.The real problem come from the blade production and the waste it produces.Its so bad there isnt a blade producer in the US anymore but relocated in south america so it can disgard its production waste there.The chemicals involved in blade production are enormous and harmfull to the environment and more important the humans involved in the process.Wind is a very important part to conserver but offers its own drawbacks that go unchallanged.
Kingster
· 2 years ago
Discussed the negative effects of green energy on your economy. I beleive America import 13.15 million barrels of oil per day (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/p...). At $50 per barrel that mean you would improve your deficit by $657 million per day.
That sounds like it should be good for your country and may reduce some of the internation issues related to oil.
ListeningWind
· 2 years ago
These monstrosities will end up doing more harm via the aforementioned butterfly cough syndrome and should be stopped IMMEDIATELY. Write your congressman and why not hold a protest?
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
"So, uh, don't put it in the way of migration flight paths. Should be easy enough to do - just ask the local birdwatchers. :)"
You missed the point -- people who constantly talk about birds when turbines are mentioned don't care about birds, they just care about shooting down wind power. If they really cared about birds, they'd offer constructive criticism and they would work to save birds from the real problems: habitat destruction, global warming, food chain contamination, cars, buildings and house cats. You never hear them about any of these things, so it follow that all they care about it repeating anti-wind propaganda.
Sydney Allis
· 2 years ago
I love reading the comments on these pages because I end up learning way more then what I get from the articles. It is great that we can have oposing opinions with little degrading remarks. I did notice there are a few unproductive remarks on the comments above. How about we respect each other no matter what our opinion is. We need to all work together to make any changes and putting someone else's comment down is not going to encourage different views and informative comments. "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me."
Anonymous
· 2 years ago
"wouldn't it make a ton of sense to lount solar panels to the turbines so that even more energy can be collected when there is wind, and a smaller amount of supplementary energy could be collected when there isn't any wind?"
The reason is probably that the best places to put turbines and the best places to put solar panels aren't always the same.
Usually also make more sense to put solar panels on the roof of buildings so that you need a lot less transport infrastructure, which it's not very practical to put a 1.5 megawatt turbine in the middle of a residential or commercial area :-)
Nathan Brazil
· 2 years ago
I'd love to use wind and solar energy here in the US (Atlanta area, GA). But get this: When we were scouting for a new house recently, we read the fine print of the home owner's association (most new subdivisions in the US have those these days). It stated there in no uncertain terms that I'm not to add solar panels of any kind to my house. Neither am I allowed to erect any type of structure other than a wooden fence.
What also caught our attention is the inefficient way they build here. the walls are 15 cm thick with no insulation to speak of. And forget concrete and bricks: the walls are made of wooden planks, 4 cm x 13 cm that are spaced about every 50 - 70 cm. Then they nail a 1.5 cm thick piece of "insulation" on the outside and then they fasten 5 mm thick concrete boards on top of that. On the inside, they add a 7 mm thick pice of "sheet rock" (aka plasterboard, gypsum board) and a little paint.
I was thinking that you would need a little more than that to keep the 35°C heat and 0°C cold out.
Needless to say, we didn't buy a new house - yet. Solid houses are hard to find over here.
Richard
· 2 years ago
I spent all day crunching the numbers and doing the math and researching this topic on the internet and have come to the well founded conclusion that this company has artificially inflated their figures. 6 MW supplying 4 k homes.
My spidey-senses were peaked when I noticed that the next day there was a post about the 40 MW solar farm supplying only 6 k homes... why the discrepancy?
I cannot post the entire justification here, but have put it up on my site:
Please have a look if you would like proof that these numbers are not quite honest... possible?... Maybe... under extremely ideal circumstances, but definetly not an acurate representation of what this unit will produce on average in the real world.
Drew
· 2 years ago
In regards to my comment about turbines killing birds, it was not fueled (no pun intended) by oil companies. I was talking more from personal experience. My hometown of Tehachapi, CA (google it) runs off of one of the largest wind farms in North America. I was not attacking wind energy I was stating that there will be an ecological impact. In our specific case a population of 5,000 predatory birds is now down to a dwindling 100 (50 are kept by conservationists). So statistically how many birds are killed by our modern wind turbines versus tall buildings, cats, global warming, etc? Answer: 100%
Mike
· 2 years ago
"that's enough to supply power to 4000 homes in Germany" I believe the caveat here is "in Germany". If you talked about "in the US' you might get maybe 1500 homes powered ;-)
Richard
· 2 years ago
It has been brought to my attention that my assesment that the German compnay inflated their figures is likely false. It is likely that they used average German home consumption figures, which are drastically lower than those in the United States (~3,000 KWh/year/home in Germany vs 8-11,000 KWh/year/home in the US). Taking into consideration this large discrepancy it is likely that my claims that they falsified data are incorrect. I will however maintain that these numbers are not representative of the capabilities of this unit on a global average, as clearly the numbers are skewed for German consumption alone.
Randy
· 2 years ago
You'll notice that many of the older turbines, such as the majority of those in Tehachapi, have much smaller rotor diameters and rotate much faster then the newer, larger rotor sets. The blades on new turbines have a much diminished impact on bird populations. I'd like to see those mini, inefficient, bird blenders taken down personally.
Grey
· 2 years ago
"I will however maintain that these numbers are not representative of the capabilities of this unit on a global average, as clearly the numbers are skewed for German consumption alone."
LOL! I don't mean to be rude but how Americocentric can you get? You seem to have confused the term 'Global' with the term 'American'. America is the major consumer of Power in the world. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say;
"these numbers ARE representative of the capabilities of this unit on a global average, IF you exclude the power guzzling Americans."?
Though accounting for only 5 percent of the world's population, Americans consume 26 percent of the world's energy.
In 1997, U.S. residents consumed an average of 12,133 kilowatt-hours of electricity each, almost nine times greater than the average for the rest of the world. (Grist Magazine)
The siting studies for wind turbines, done prior to placement, tend to minimize the intermittancy operational concerns which you mentioned.
It does not make sense, in a capital recovery environment, unless they generate power, and therefore revenue, on an almost continuous basis.
Solar Thermal Electrical does have the ability presently to be a base line (24/7) energy provider.
For some time they have been storing day time heat for use during night.
First with oil now with molten Salt. The heat is used both day and night to power turbines.
If interested, you might want to take a look at what is going on in Israel, Spain and in California in the Mojave desert. Another place to look would be at Schott Glass' web site.
You are right about PV designs, they have not moved very much in about 20 years either in conversion efficiency or in the necessary improvments in storage Technology.
There is a recent start up in Cal., and there is some work going on in New England, that is attempting to bring nano-tech into usage in the designs.
Some studies indicate there is a possibility of a 60 percent conversion efficiency with the approach. I will believe it when the are successful. So far, in 20 years, most of the results are high cost and poor performance products, when viewed from the energy available in photonic form, the conversion efficiency actually delivered and the costs in the market place. What a scam!
Integrated PV/electrolyzers are still primitive to say the least.
All the current commercial designs for stand alone electrolyzers are positioned/designed as an AC source user. Not surprising considering who has sponsored or lobbied for the funding and is the intended buyer.
What is needed is some emphasis in optimizing them for direct DC power application.
The reason is it is more efficient, more reliable (parts count and complexity reduction), cost effective (reduction in operation and acquistion cost) and can use a fairly wide unregulated DC source.
By the way electrolyzers are capable of series connected arrangement to allow a configuration to work with increased magnitude output arrangements. Additionally, as the load is resistive variations in magnitude result mostly in variations in gas production rate, not in efficiency of conversion changes.
Work in this direction is contrary to both the DOE policy and more importantly EPRI and the AC utility political action group.
Point being not all the barriers are technical, some are political and quite formidable.
Insofare as electrical storage goes, It seems as though research for electrical storage technology in multi-MW hr. sized situations died right after the nickel iron period back about 10 years ago.
The same thing is true in the KWhr sized environments, not much change and the costs are still extremely high.
It is good to see the renewed effort to HVDC transmission. It's time to consider central generation without the inverter cost in the captial cost per KW, especially for those loads which are much more efficiently served by DC.
Moe Anderson
· 2 years ago
Most bird studies are entirely fueled by the developer. It is becoming quite obvious just recently that they have glossed over and minimized the impact to wildlife. Recent Congressional hearings brought forward several experts who have testified that a potential environmental disaster is in the works if developers are allowed to continue placing these in poor sites.
Last month I learned the Delaware-Otsego Audubon Society acquired (through a Freedom of Information Act) a report of the first year study of bird and bat deaths at the wind facility in Lewis County, New York. This company-sponsored survey estimates the death toll to have been between 3,103 and 6,011 birds and bats in the first year of operations alone, significantly more than what was originally predicted by the developer.
Mike
· 2 years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong. The reason the electrical consumption is so low in parts of Europe is that the prices are artificially inflated to reduce consumption. This was one of the causes of thousands of people dieing of heat stroke in Europe several years ago, when the same temperatures in the US couldn't account for even one hundred in the entire country of over 250 million people for the entire summer! I believe our Electric rates are "generally" much lower than Europe thus we can afford air conditioning, (I'm paying 12.3 cents per KWH, some pay less. I used 93 KWH in the past month-just got my bill today!) and stave off killing our people. Sure there are many other ways to get killed in our country, but lack of electricity to cool our homes isn't usually one of them.
Sammiie*
· 2 years ago
Hello. my name is Samm and i wanted to know how powerful the wind can get? how many people its killed. let me know its for school!!
thomas riccardo
· 2 years ago
The European Union uses 50% less energy per capita then the U.S. per unit of GDP-Meaning the Europeans use much more efficient appliances,factories,lighting,heating,etc.
The U.S. uses 25% if the world's energy but it's not because our economy is bigger, it is because we use very old and inefficient energy technology and also do not conserve at all.
The U.S. could half it's energy consumption without hurting GDP or any American standards of living.
The energy companies like the idea of waste so they make more money!
The European Union Economy is huge(14.5 Trillion Euros) which would be around 19 Trillion U.S. dollars and also 40 million manufacturing jobs.
European Diesal Cars have 40% better gas mileage then Gasoline and with Bio-diesal it is also cleaner for a small example of efficiency.
They are the world leaders in Geothermal, Wind Technology,Solar photovotaic and solar thermal,ocean energy,bio-fuels, biomass and buildings that are energy efficient.
I guess their economy is very energy efficient.
gerald duffy
· 2 years ago
The emperor does not wear pants. Lets put these towers in the cities so they do not lose 35% of there power in transmission. Does it take 6000 thousand of these things to produce what one coal fired plant produces? Go Solar and decentralize this Enron Scam. Try using your electricity just when the wind blows. In the long run these things cost more to produce than they ever will save? Spend our tax money on something that truly works.
Bob Mali
· 2 years ago
u guys are tools birds will keep dieing
STOP IT DUN DO IT LEAVVE EM ALONE!!!
noobs
Timmothy Long
· 2 years ago
STOP KILLING THE BIRDS U NOOBS. They didnt do anything to u ... y would u do that. UR MEANIES , BIG MEANIES.
Rayne
· 2 years ago
Well I live in Livingston county NY and there is a huge uprising of the wind turbines. I think that they are a great thing. Where we are there are lots of hills and valleys and a lot of the land owners that own the land on top of the hills are for having the turbines installed or already have them there. It's clean air, its not huring the earth its healping the earth it is not depleating from its natural resourses and that is a good thing. I know that for myself I am looking into finding property right now or grants or something along those lines for my first house and I want to have a wind turbine on my property.
timmothy long
· 2 years ago
Y WOULD U WANT A WIND TURBINE ... WIND TURBINES = NOT GOOD ... it kills thoings and my dps isnt good enuf... i need a off hjealer too .. OOM
Anonymous
· 1 year ago
thats a lot of homes from just one wind power thing i am doing a project on the wind power how it works and stuff like that for sicene i like this subject
Raissi
· 1 year ago
Hey. I think These wind turbines are awesome. And most of you are right. They turn much to slow to kill birds, unless the bird is blind, they can fly around. They have lights, (at least the ones around here do..) So its not a thing at night. We live on a hill, and there is ALWAYS wind. We're getting one installed at the high point of our property. Their HUGE, but very resourceful. Its not stealing wind, wind isnt stealable? It just pushes through.
vsk
· 1 year ago
I love the various theories and methods of spellingk dee seemple worts and tingks.
I wonder if spelling-challenged people are able to offer valid points? ...Or tie their own shoes for that matter?
Wind turbines slowing down wind speeds?
What's next? Tidal generators stopping the Gulf Stream??
Thousands of dead birds at the bases of wind turbines?
Help !!
vsk
destin danser
· 1 year ago
hey heres a thought! wind power only produces power about 30% of the time due to wind speed! this leaves conventional power plants supporting the grid about 70% of the time. the conventional plants (that burn fossil fuels) must always remain on standby (running therefore producing emmisions) in case of the wind leaving the 20 to 50 mph range. each wind farm also adds many vehicles to the road which produce emmissions. when you do the math you'll find that the wind farms do not cut down on emissions. WIND FARMS INCREASE POLLUTANTS IN THE ATMOSPHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i kno all this because it is the subject of a term paper im currently writing
destin
Jasper
· 1 year ago
I am wondering how much that windturbine costs, because i am a student and im doing a project on this and i want to know what the cost is.
John Johnson
· 1 year ago
destin,
what pollutants are given off by windmills? how does it not cut emissions if it takes the place of coal burning or gas burning?
-John
Ben Affleck
· 1 year ago
Destin, you are mistaken and should never be allowed to write a paper about anything - except perhaps for proponents of selective breeding. I work on a windfarm and I SEE both the good and the bad effects of wind turbines. the good FAR outweigh the bad, and i am very curious to know what emissions these are that you are referring to. NO, they do not run all of the time, but if you ever really did find a wind farm that only ran 30% of the time, you would find one developer that never got a chance at another project. the 2MW machines that i work on (Gamesa G87's - 87 meter rotor diameter) have a cut in of 4 m/s (just a hair under 9 mph) have been producing electricity for well over a year, and in that time we have had an "environmentally ok" time of 98.8%, and of that 98.8% we have been producing for well over 90%. Please get your facts right before you post - let alone publish any kind of a paper.
"Wind turbines STEAL jobs from power plant workers. Wind turbines are bad for the economy, and a strain on our delicate environment!"
Really, Penix? REALLY? You should tell that to the college administrators at the schools that train wind turbine technicians (yes, there are college programs geared to specifically train for these jobs), who have had to ban recruiters from campus because too many of their students have been hired and put to work before even finishing their first semester. Ya, there is that big of a demand for these technicians. For every 11 or 12 wind turbines in operation, there is ideally (at least) 1 technician maintaining them full-time. If you have experience in hydraulics, mechanics, and/or electronics you can cold-call these wind companies for an interview and stand a good chance of getting hired if you're willing to move where the jobs are (and have ample opportunity to move into supervisory positions after some on-the-job training and a little more than a year on the job).
Personally, I have never heard of a worker from a nuclear or coal-fired plant being laid-off because someone put in a wind-farm. Know why? Because we are consistently consuming more and more power as the population increases and we buy more and more fancy power-sucking gadgets. Any power plant currently in operation will continue to operate until the plant meets/exceeds its operational lifespan, or until the government declares that the plant is too dirty/dangerous and must be retired. Chances are when that does finally happen the workers will have enough mechanical, hydraulic, or electronic experience to qualify to work at a wind farm (as long as they are physically able and don't mind heights).
Wind farms aren't hurting the economy, they're creating more jobs, both directly (component manufacturers, wind-farm technicians, HR, management, etc.) and indirectly (more energy to power more factories and other businesses that don't have to compete as hard financially for otherwise scarce energy resources). They aren't hurting the coal/nuc. powerplant workers because they'll have their jobs until the plants become obsolete. The people holding stocks in those companies will feel the pinch to some extent (eventually), but they can start reinvesting their savings into these green-tech companies whenever they feel like it... and if they miss the boat, then that's their problem (they ARE presumably responsible adults, after all). The corporate-types working for these companies (shareholders themselves) will manage to land on their feet (or the backs of other shareholders).
meknow
· 1 year ago
Wind power can run 24 hours a day, solar is only good for maybe 1/4 to 1/3 that. That's why the windmill can power more homes.
OK, so it's like this, you have a 1KWatt solar cell, you don't call it 250 watts because it only runs 1/4 of the day, but it only produces 8KW per day.
But a 1KWatt windmill can produce 24KW in a day because it could run 24 hours (if the wind is blowing of course).
Roger
· 1 year ago
For the one lamenting the fact that America's 5% of the population uses 26% of the energy, know that this is precisely how much we should be using. America also produces 25% of the world's goods and services.
Also know that wind turbines can produce power 24 hrs a day. There are many means to store energy besides batteries: compressed air, water pumping, hydraulics. While a single turbine can't store much energy, any large nation covered with them can do quite well. It's rarely calm everywhere.
Bridget
· 1 year ago
To the author: can you please provide me with the reference for the picture that has the increasing height of wind turbines depicted? Thank you so much.
Ray
· 1 year ago
We should not have to argue about how much energy we use. We should able to use all the energy you want and be as productive as you want. We just need to use the right sources so it does not impact our future. The planet will be fine, it's humans and life in general that I worry about.
And let's quit arguing about which source we should use. In the words of a great American hero, T. Boone Pickens...."We Need It All"
Anonymous
· 1 year ago
Americans are deeply propagandized in the capitalist mantra "you use, you pay, you use, you pay" Sustainable, renewable and perpetual power (as in motion) are castigated from thought and deleted as idiotic and impossible, a 'fool's paradise' type of thinking because these ideas are so dangerous to the capitalistic system of exploitation! BUT: Wind power is like a perpetual power generator, and once set up, for maintenance only, produces power! The point Americans can't get their heads around is the "Perpetual" notion! Battery Hybrid plug in commuter cars will ballast wind power, absorbing all the power produced, and giving some back when needed, not full service to suit Yankee-Doodles desires, mind you, but survival levels until the wind blows again! The oncoming great republican depression will cause sociological paradigm shifts in the souls of Americans, and the "American Dream" will change dramatically in the next few years, after this occurs restraint and tolerance will replace arrogant blustering demands and the children of the new world will have passed through their adolescence and into a responsible young adulthood. Suddenly, the German wind solution will appear reasonable, as will the high efficiency diesel engines, solar installations of Spain and solar voltaic methods. At this tipping point in American development, the reasons for the depression will have melted away, the surviving Americans will begin to really develop "Perpetual" power systems and they will be exported to a happier, cleaner world.
jaky
· 9 months ago
hey! Gr8. I was just writing about it on my blog. Wind turbines are literally the best ways to tap into the world of non conventional sources of energy.
mehulkamdar
· 4 months ago
One of the biggest advantages of wind energy is that wind turbines don't need to draw water for cooling as a letter to the editor in "Businessweek" pointed out some time ago. In an age of declining water resources, this factor should be considered especially significant. It is baffling that the major wind turbine manufacturers have not been pointing this fact out.
person
· 3 weeks ago
Holand has loads of wind turbunes, every where you go!
All Comments
These are very videly used in some countries, free + eco friendly energy
Correction...Turbine has a hub height of 124 meters - significantly taller than a 3 story building.
Wind energy is only a piece of the clean energy puzzle.
The very nature of power intermittancy with wind, PV and concentrated solar means that these technologies need to be complemented by the more continuous Geothermal, wave and ocean current sources. Wind energy extraction at altitudes high above ground level also needs careful scutiny.
The law of diminishing returns applies to the size of wind turbines as it does to all machinery so we have to think ahead. Bigger may not always prove better.
Presently, dependency on coal and nuclear is necessary as a back-up for wind power but there is no reason to believe that this dependency will last after the clean energy puzzle has been completed.
adrianakau@aol.com
As they get larger, do these wind turbines show increased efficiency? For example, does making one twice as large produce more than twice as much electricity? Or are there diminishing returns?
I imaging the answer to that question would drastically change the best way to engineer and space them out.
Chris
http://amateureconblog.blogspot.com/</p>
As they get larger, do these wind turbines show increased efficiency? For example, does making one twice as large produce more than twice as much electricity? Or are there diminishing returns?
I imaging the answer to that question would drastically change the best way to engineer and space them out.
Chris
http://amateureconblog.blogspot.com/</p>
I /thought/ that nacelle looked a bit like the Gherkin (sideways)!
no energy plant is eco-friendly. People have thought burning fuels doesn't mean anything, until oncology showed the reverse (climate impact yet to be determined too). Same with wind, taking that energy out of the air (with evergrowing number of the wind turbines) we don't know where we end up in a hundred of years from now. Always remember about the "butterfly effect".
Wind turbines STEAL jobs from power plant workers. Wind turbines are bad for the economy, and a strain on our delicate environment!
I have to agree with Adrian Akau. The unpredictability of wind only makes it a supplement to conventional means of energy.
Wolf Zombie
Talk about butterfly coughing in China -- if these were widespread wouldn't they take enough energy out of the wind currents to alter global climate? Is
WOW
" Talk about butterfly coughing in China -- if these were widespread wouldn't they take enough energy out of the wind currents to alter global climate?"
Short answer: No.
Longer answer: Everything affects wind. Trees, hills, buildings, mountains, etc. Wind turbines are a very very very very very very very small part of the obstacles to wind on Earth.
"Wind turbines STEAL jobs from power plant workers. Wind turbines are bad for the economy, and a strain on our delicate environment!"
What a bunch of crap!
Global warming is going to be very bad for the economy, and new clean technologies are creating tons of jobs in R&D, manufacturing, implementation and maintenance.
Welcome to a capitalist system; creative destruction cleans the things that aren't needed anymore and creates new jobs. There are less candle makers now, but that's not a bad thing.
The story about the town is pretty incredible. I'd like to see more installations like that in the US.
To those who are ranting about the climate effect of these turbines. How much wind do you think a skyscraper alters, or an entire city of skyscrapers? Like New York City? Hardly turbines will affect negatively the environment. And wind forced turbines don't "steal" wind, it is merely passed through the rotor blades, and emitted again through the back.
this is not possible 112 meter diameter you mean 11.2 meter in the second pic the housing is has big as the building below , and that is about 11meter or so.
While wind energy is very green, there is an ecological impact if the turbine is places in the flight path of any migratory birds. They will be cut to shreds trying to follow their internal compasses during their annual migrations.
"While wind energy is very green, there is an ecological impact if the turbine is places in the flight path of any migratory birds. They will be cut to shreds trying to follow their internal compasses during their annual migrations. "
Actually, that's not quite exact.
Modern big wind turbines spin very slowly. While it is true that some birds can be killed during collisions with turbines, that is a tiny fraction of birds killed compared to house cats, automobiles and buildings (mostly windows). A very tiny fraction.
The other aspect is that pollution (air, water.. food chain) also kills lots of birds, so does habitat destruction and global warming. Turbines are a net positive for birds and wildlife in the vast majority of cases.
The myths around wind power are staggering. Stealing Wind? Killing Birds? These are all fears that have been propagated by big oil and coal companies. It's true that the economy will change, but imagine large wind turbine manufacturing plants in the USA. LOTS of new jobs! There are cities on earth that are almost uninhabitable because of smog/air pollution. Wind turbines are a BIG part of the answer.
this is not possible 112 meter diameter you mean 11.2 meter
It actually is 112 meters. Yes. You read that well. If you are still not believing it, go to the other link provided in the article about a 126 m diameter turbine. If those pics won't convince you, then nothing will.
On the subject of the best use of space, wouldn't it make a ton of sense to lount solar panels to the turbines so that even more energy can be collected when there is wind, and a smaller amount of supplementary energy could be collected when there isn't any wind?
Why hasn't anyone thought of this? Am I mistaken?
@Chris - You are right and wrong at the same time. When we increase diameter 2x, the power increases 4x (in ideal case) and when speed of wind increases 2x the power increases 8x. So when rotor is 2x bigger, power is more than 2x higher but it's not due to increase of efficiency but quadratic proportion of radius to power.
x means times
srx for my bad english
Wind turbines STEAL jobs from power plant workers. Wind turbines are bad for the economy, and a strain on our delicate environment!
Well, all those power plant workers can get jobs as windmill workers. Sounds like more fun to me anyway.
Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report
Actually, I own the wind. Wind turbines are STEALING from ME! Now I'll have to unleash another major hurricane. Silly mortals.
So, uh, don't put it in the way of migration flight paths. Should be easy enough to do - just ask the local birdwatchers. :)
Its about time a gearless machine came into play.Having worked at the big dog of turbine producers I can tell you a hydrolic leak on these machines can "paint" everything behind them.Throw some shreded paper(to simulate the leak) in a fan and you will get the picture.The real problem come from the blade production and the waste it produces.Its so bad there isnt a blade producer in the US anymore but relocated in south america so it can disgard its production waste there.The chemicals involved in blade production are enormous and harmfull to the environment and more important the humans involved in the process.Wind is a very important part to conserver but offers its own drawbacks that go unchallanged.
Discussed the negative effects of green energy on your economy. I beleive America import 13.15 million barrels of oil per day (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/p...). At $50 per barrel that mean you would improve your deficit by $657 million per day.
That sounds like it should be good for your country and may reduce some of the internation issues related to oil.
These monstrosities will end up doing more harm via the aforementioned butterfly cough syndrome and should be stopped IMMEDIATELY. Write your congressman and why not hold a protest?
"So, uh, don't put it in the way of migration flight paths. Should be easy enough to do - just ask the local birdwatchers. :)"
You missed the point -- people who constantly talk about birds when turbines are mentioned don't care about birds, they just care about shooting down wind power. If they really cared about birds, they'd offer constructive criticism and they would work to save birds from the real problems: habitat destruction, global warming, food chain contamination, cars, buildings and house cats. You never hear them about any of these things, so it follow that all they care about it repeating anti-wind propaganda.
I love reading the comments on these pages because I end up learning way more then what I get from the articles. It is great that we can have oposing opinions with little degrading remarks. I did notice there are a few unproductive remarks on the comments above. How about we respect each other no matter what our opinion is. We need to all work together to make any changes and putting someone else's comment down is not going to encourage different views and informative comments. "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me."
"wouldn't it make a ton of sense to lount solar panels to the turbines so that even more energy can be collected when there is wind, and a smaller amount of supplementary energy could be collected when there isn't any wind?"
The reason is probably that the best places to put turbines and the best places to put solar panels aren't always the same.
Usually also make more sense to put solar panels on the roof of buildings so that you need a lot less transport infrastructure, which it's not very practical to put a 1.5 megawatt turbine in the middle of a residential or commercial area :-)
I'd love to use wind and solar energy here in the US (Atlanta area, GA). But get this: When we were scouting for a new house recently, we read the fine print of the home owner's association (most new subdivisions in the US have those these days). It stated there in no uncertain terms that I'm not to add solar panels of any kind to my house. Neither am I allowed to erect any type of structure other than a wooden fence.
What also caught our attention is the inefficient way they build here. the walls are 15 cm thick with no insulation to speak of. And forget concrete and bricks: the walls are made of wooden planks, 4 cm x 13 cm that are spaced about every 50 - 70 cm. Then they nail a 1.5 cm thick piece of "insulation" on the outside and then they fasten 5 mm thick concrete boards on top of that. On the inside, they add a 7 mm thick pice of "sheet rock" (aka plasterboard, gypsum board) and a little paint.
I was thinking that you would need a little more than that to keep the 35°C heat and 0°C cold out.
Needless to say, we didn't buy a new house - yet. Solid houses are hard to find over here.
I spent all day crunching the numbers and doing the math and researching this topic on the internet and have come to the well founded conclusion that this company has artificially inflated their figures. 6 MW supplying 4 k homes.
My spidey-senses were peaked when I noticed that the next day there was a post about the 40 MW solar farm supplying only 6 k homes... why the discrepancy?
I cannot post the entire justification here, but have put it up on my site:
http://vesparich.blogspot.com/2007/05/conflicting-numbers.html
Please have a look if you would like proof that these numbers are not quite honest... possible?... Maybe... under extremely ideal circumstances, but definetly not an acurate representation of what this unit will produce on average in the real world.
In regards to my comment about turbines killing birds, it was not fueled (no pun intended) by oil companies. I was talking more from personal experience. My hometown of Tehachapi, CA (google it) runs off of one of the largest wind farms in North America. I was not attacking wind energy I was stating that there will be an ecological impact. In our specific case a population of 5,000 predatory birds is now down to a dwindling 100 (50 are kept by conservationists). So statistically how many birds are killed by our modern wind turbines versus tall buildings, cats, global warming, etc? Answer: 100%
"that's enough to supply power to 4000 homes in Germany" I believe the caveat here is "in Germany". If you talked about "in the US' you might get maybe 1500 homes powered ;-)
It has been brought to my attention that my assesment that the German compnay inflated their figures is likely false. It is likely that they used average German home consumption figures, which are drastically lower than those in the United States (~3,000 KWh/year/home in Germany vs 8-11,000 KWh/year/home in the US). Taking into consideration this large discrepancy it is likely that my claims that they falsified data are incorrect. I will however maintain that these numbers are not representative of the capabilities of this unit on a global average, as clearly the numbers are skewed for German consumption alone.
You'll notice that many of the older turbines, such as the majority of those in Tehachapi, have much smaller rotor diameters and rotate much faster then the newer, larger rotor sets. The blades on new turbines have a much diminished impact on bird populations. I'd like to see those mini, inefficient, bird blenders taken down personally.
"I will however maintain that these numbers are not representative of the capabilities of this unit on a global average, as clearly the numbers are skewed for German consumption alone."
LOL! I don't mean to be rude but how Americocentric can you get? You seem to have confused the term 'Global' with the term 'American'. America is the major consumer of Power in the world. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say;
"these numbers ARE representative of the capabilities of this unit on a global average, IF you exclude the power guzzling Americans."?
Though accounting for only 5 percent of the world's population, Americans consume 26 percent of the world's energy.
In 1997, U.S. residents consumed an average of 12,133 kilowatt-hours of electricity each, almost nine times greater than the average for the rest of the world. (Grist Magazine)
and more:
http://www.solarenergy.org/resources/energyfact...>
to: adrianakau@aol.com
The siting studies for wind turbines, done prior to placement, tend to minimize the intermittancy operational concerns which you mentioned.
It does not make sense, in a capital recovery environment, unless they generate power, and therefore revenue, on an almost continuous basis.
Solar Thermal Electrical does have the ability presently to be a base line (24/7) energy provider.
For some time they have been storing day time heat for use during night.
First with oil now with molten Salt. The heat is used both day and night to power turbines.
If interested, you might want to take a look at what is going on in Israel, Spain and in California in the Mojave desert. Another place to look would be at Schott Glass' web site.
You are right about PV designs, they have not moved very much in about 20 years either in conversion efficiency or in the necessary improvments in storage Technology.
There is a recent start up in Cal., and there is some work going on in New England, that is attempting to bring nano-tech into usage in the designs.
Some studies indicate there is a possibility of a 60 percent conversion efficiency with the approach. I will believe it when the are successful. So far, in 20 years, most of the results are high cost and poor performance products, when viewed from the energy available in photonic form, the conversion efficiency actually delivered and the costs in the market place. What a scam!
Integrated PV/electrolyzers are still primitive to say the least.
All the current commercial designs for stand alone electrolyzers are positioned/designed as an AC source user. Not surprising considering who has sponsored or lobbied for the funding and is the intended buyer.
What is needed is some emphasis in optimizing them for direct DC power application.
The reason is it is more efficient, more reliable (parts count and complexity reduction), cost effective (reduction in operation and acquistion cost) and can use a fairly wide unregulated DC source.
By the way electrolyzers are capable of series connected arrangement to allow a configuration to work with increased magnitude output arrangements. Additionally, as the load is resistive variations in magnitude result mostly in variations in gas production rate, not in efficiency of conversion changes.
Work in this direction is contrary to both the DOE policy and more importantly EPRI and the AC utility political action group.
Point being not all the barriers are technical, some are political and quite formidable.
Insofare as electrical storage goes, It seems as though research for electrical storage technology in multi-MW hr. sized situations died right after the nickel iron period back about 10 years ago.
The same thing is true in the KWhr sized environments, not much change and the costs are still extremely high.
It is good to see the renewed effort to HVDC transmission. It's time to consider central generation without the inverter cost in the captial cost per KW, especially for those loads which are much more efficiently served by DC.
Most bird studies are entirely fueled by the developer. It is becoming quite obvious just recently that they have glossed over and minimized the impact to wildlife. Recent Congressional hearings brought forward several experts who have testified that a potential environmental disaster is in the works if developers are allowed to continue placing these in poor sites.
Last month I learned the Delaware-Otsego Audubon Society acquired (through a Freedom of Information Act) a report of the first year study of bird and bat deaths at the wind facility in Lewis County, New York. This company-sponsored survey estimates the death toll to have been between 3,103 and 6,011 birds and bats in the first year of operations alone, significantly more than what was originally predicted by the developer.
Correct me if I'm wrong. The reason the electrical consumption is so low in parts of Europe is that the prices are artificially inflated to reduce consumption. This was one of the causes of thousands of people dieing of heat stroke in Europe several years ago, when the same temperatures in the US couldn't account for even one hundred in the entire country of over 250 million people for the entire summer! I believe our Electric rates are "generally" much lower than Europe thus we can afford air conditioning, (I'm paying 12.3 cents per KWH, some pay less. I used 93 KWH in the past month-just got my bill today!) and stave off killing our people. Sure there are many other ways to get killed in our country, but lack of electricity to cool our homes isn't usually one of them.
Hello. my name is Samm and i wanted to know how powerful the wind can get? how many people its killed. let me know its for school!!
The European Union uses 50% less energy per capita then the U.S. per unit of GDP-Meaning the Europeans use much more efficient appliances,factories,lighting,heating,etc.
The U.S. uses 25% if the world's energy but it's not because our economy is bigger, it is because we use very old and inefficient energy technology and also do not conserve at all.
The U.S. could half it's energy consumption without hurting GDP or any American standards of living.
The energy companies like the idea of waste so they make more money!
The European Union Economy is huge(14.5 Trillion Euros) which would be around 19 Trillion U.S. dollars and also 40 million manufacturing jobs.
European Diesal Cars have 40% better gas mileage then Gasoline and with Bio-diesal it is also cleaner for a small example of efficiency.
They are the world leaders in Geothermal, Wind Technology,Solar photovotaic and solar thermal,ocean energy,bio-fuels, biomass and buildings that are energy efficient.
I guess their economy is very energy efficient.
The emperor does not wear pants. Lets put these towers in the cities so they do not lose 35% of there power in transmission. Does it take 6000 thousand of these things to produce what one coal fired plant produces? Go Solar and decentralize this Enron Scam. Try using your electricity just when the wind blows. In the long run these things cost more to produce than they ever will save? Spend our tax money on something that truly works.
u guys are tools birds will keep dieing
STOP IT DUN DO IT LEAVVE EM ALONE!!!
noobs
STOP KILLING THE BIRDS U NOOBS. They didnt do anything to u ... y would u do that. UR MEANIES , BIG MEANIES.
Well I live in Livingston county NY and there is a huge uprising of the wind turbines. I think that they are a great thing. Where we are there are lots of hills and valleys and a lot of the land owners that own the land on top of the hills are for having the turbines installed or already have them there. It's clean air, its not huring the earth its healping the earth it is not depleating from its natural resourses and that is a good thing. I know that for myself I am looking into finding property right now or grants or something along those lines for my first house and I want to have a wind turbine on my property.
Y WOULD U WANT A WIND TURBINE ... WIND TURBINES = NOT GOOD ... it kills thoings and my dps isnt good enuf... i need a off hjealer too .. OOM
thats a lot of homes from just one wind power thing i am doing a project on the wind power how it works and stuff like that for sicene i like this subject
Hey. I think These wind turbines are awesome. And most of you are right. They turn much to slow to kill birds, unless the bird is blind, they can fly around. They have lights, (at least the ones around here do..) So its not a thing at night. We live on a hill, and there is ALWAYS wind. We're getting one installed at the high point of our property. Their HUGE, but very resourceful. Its not stealing wind, wind isnt stealable? It just pushes through.
I love the various theories and methods of spellingk dee seemple worts and tingks.
I wonder if spelling-challenged people are able to offer valid points? ...Or tie their own shoes for that matter?
Wind turbines slowing down wind speeds?
What's next? Tidal generators stopping the Gulf Stream??
Thousands of dead birds at the bases of wind turbines?
Help !!
vsk
hey heres a thought! wind power only produces power about 30% of the time due to wind speed! this leaves conventional power plants supporting the grid about 70% of the time. the conventional plants (that burn fossil fuels) must always remain on standby (running therefore producing emmisions) in case of the wind leaving the 20 to 50 mph range. each wind farm also adds many vehicles to the road which produce emmissions. when you do the math you'll find that the wind farms do not cut down on emissions. WIND FARMS INCREASE POLLUTANTS IN THE ATMOSPHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i kno all this because it is the subject of a term paper im currently writing
destin
I am wondering how much that windturbine costs, because i am a student and im doing a project on this and i want to know what the cost is.
destin,
what pollutants are given off by windmills? how does it not cut emissions if it takes the place of coal burning or gas burning?
-John
Destin, you are mistaken and should never be allowed to write a paper about anything - except perhaps for proponents of selective breeding. I work on a windfarm and I SEE both the good and the bad effects of wind turbines. the good FAR outweigh the bad, and i am very curious to know what emissions these are that you are referring to. NO, they do not run all of the time, but if you ever really did find a wind farm that only ran 30% of the time, you would find one developer that never got a chance at another project. the 2MW machines that i work on (Gamesa G87's - 87 meter rotor diameter) have a cut in of 4 m/s (just a hair under 9 mph) have been producing electricity for well over a year, and in that time we have had an "environmentally ok" time of 98.8%, and of that 98.8% we have been producing for well over 90%. Please get your facts right before you post - let alone publish any kind of a paper.
Remove spyware
"Wind turbines STEAL jobs from power plant workers. Wind turbines are bad for the economy, and a strain on our delicate environment!"
Really, Penix? REALLY? You should tell that to the college administrators at the schools that train wind turbine technicians (yes, there are college programs geared to specifically train for these jobs), who have had to ban recruiters from campus because too many of their students have been hired and put to work before even finishing their first semester. Ya, there is that big of a demand for these technicians. For every 11 or 12 wind turbines in operation, there is ideally (at least) 1 technician maintaining them full-time. If you have experience in hydraulics, mechanics, and/or electronics you can cold-call these wind companies for an interview and stand a good chance of getting hired if you're willing to move where the jobs are (and have ample opportunity to move into supervisory positions after some on-the-job training and a little more than a year on the job).
Personally, I have never heard of a worker from a nuclear or coal-fired plant being laid-off because someone put in a wind-farm. Know why? Because we are consistently consuming more and more power as the population increases and we buy more and more fancy power-sucking gadgets. Any power plant currently in operation will continue to operate until the plant meets/exceeds its operational lifespan, or until the government declares that the plant is too dirty/dangerous and must be retired. Chances are when that does finally happen the workers will have enough mechanical, hydraulic, or electronic experience to qualify to work at a wind farm (as long as they are physically able and don't mind heights).
Wind farms aren't hurting the economy, they're creating more jobs, both directly (component manufacturers, wind-farm technicians, HR, management, etc.) and indirectly (more energy to power more factories and other businesses that don't have to compete as hard financially for otherwise scarce energy resources). They aren't hurting the coal/nuc. powerplant workers because they'll have their jobs until the plants become obsolete. The people holding stocks in those companies will feel the pinch to some extent (eventually), but they can start reinvesting their savings into these green-tech companies whenever they feel like it... and if they miss the boat, then that's their problem (they ARE presumably responsible adults, after all). The corporate-types working for these companies (shareholders themselves) will manage to land on their feet (or the backs of other shareholders).
Wind power can run 24 hours a day, solar is only good for maybe 1/4 to 1/3 that. That's why the windmill can power more homes.
OK, so it's like this, you have a 1KWatt solar cell, you don't call it 250 watts because it only runs 1/4 of the day, but it only produces 8KW per day.
But a 1KWatt windmill can produce 24KW in a day because it could run 24 hours (if the wind is blowing of course).
For the one lamenting the fact that America's 5% of the population uses 26% of the energy, know that this is precisely how much we should be using. America also produces 25% of the world's goods and services.
Also know that wind turbines can produce power 24 hrs a day. There are many means to store energy besides batteries: compressed air, water pumping, hydraulics. While a single turbine can't store much energy, any large nation covered with them can do quite well. It's rarely calm everywhere.
To the author: can you please provide me with the reference for the picture that has the increasing height of wind turbines depicted? Thank you so much.
We should not have to argue about how much energy we use. We should able to use all the energy you want and be as productive as you want. We just need to use the right sources so it does not impact our future. The planet will be fine, it's humans and life in general that I worry about.
And let's quit arguing about which source we should use. In the words of a great American hero, T. Boone Pickens...."We Need It All"
Americans are deeply propagandized in the capitalist mantra "you use, you pay, you use, you pay" Sustainable, renewable and perpetual power (as in motion) are castigated from thought and deleted as idiotic and impossible, a 'fool's paradise' type of thinking because these ideas are so dangerous to the capitalistic system of exploitation! BUT: Wind power is like a perpetual power generator, and once set up, for maintenance only, produces power! The point Americans can't get their heads around is the "Perpetual" notion! Battery Hybrid plug in commuter cars will ballast wind power, absorbing all the power produced, and giving some back when needed, not full service to suit Yankee-Doodles desires, mind you, but survival levels until the wind blows again! The oncoming great republican depression will cause sociological paradigm shifts in the souls of Americans, and the "American Dream" will change dramatically in the next few years, after this occurs restraint and tolerance will replace arrogant blustering demands and the children of the new world will have passed through their adolescence and into a responsible young adulthood. Suddenly, the German wind solution will appear reasonable, as will the high efficiency diesel engines, solar installations of Spain and solar voltaic methods. At this tipping point in American development, the reasons for the depression will have melted away, the surviving Americans will begin to really develop "Perpetual" power systems and they will be exported to a happier, cleaner world.
hey! Gr8. I was just writing about it on my blog. Wind turbines are literally the best ways to tap into the world of non conventional sources of energy.
One of the biggest advantages of wind energy is that wind turbines don't need to draw water for cooling as a letter to the editor in "Businessweek" pointed out some time ago. In an age of declining water resources, this factor should be considered especially significant. It is baffling that the major wind turbine manufacturers have not been pointing this fact out.