Treehugger - Latest Comments in How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

aligatorhardt — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:55:40 -0000

Look at it as a percentage of overall heating and see that it would be insignificant to heating at much less than 1%.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

aligatorhardt — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 07:53:35 -0000

The dots represent the amount of area needed. No one intends to centralize power production to that extent.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

loder206 — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 17:07:39 -0000

wats up peeps i am in skool and on the computar and i luv hobos

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Geno — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 12:48:42 -0000

although the dots appear small on the map of the World, the footprint is massive! For comparison, all the man-made structures (e.g. fences, parking lots, buildings, etc.) in the U.S. cover about 112,000 sq kilometers. The footprint for solar-izing for the U.S. exceeds 170,000 sq kilometers. Yikes! Think of everything that is man made, and then more than double it. Add to that the need to transmit that electrical energy to its use point. Plus, the overhead (energy loss and infrastructure) needed to convert to mobile uses (i.e. cars, trucks, bus).

Even if everyone agrees to give up our liberty to the "committee of experts", we still are short using solar. How about solar panels on nuclear-fission generators?

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Raymond — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:44:43 -0000

Each govt assigns a committee of experts (very experienced and well educated people) to evaluate what source or combination is most efficient large scale and productive in its particular region. They implement the plan with tax payers money. We as the voters let them know that this is required.
That simple. People are ready for the change
Decentralizing is best cause countries don't share. E.g. opeq
Pooled funds make big impacts and individuals are lazy or apathetic.
America needs to lead the way. This could already be old news .
Start writing letters to your party, send out an email to your friends to tell them to start writing letters to their party. Our current situation must change in the next ten o 15 years.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Uncle B — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:52:35 -0000

Now that we see an end to the rampage of corporatism, and Capitalism coming to and end also, in the U.S.A. with the free-fall of the American dollar, with respect to the "Yuan" and Gold, the world may be able to breath easy, and go ahead with smaller, communal style living, in super-insulated, solar heated houses, not McMansions as the dying propagandists dictate as necessary! Nor the V-8 engined super-cars! Once the super-insulations that made the space age possible, are trickled down to the public, quite feasible "Off-Grid" lower power consumption, and very comfortable lives may be led by all of us! Once the super-magnets are producing wind power, and new batteries capturing wind surges, and LED lights are available to all, and no longer "owned" by U.S. patent laws, once we have Solar Thermal Power plants, like in Spain, in "Perpetual" power supply to mankind, and once we learn to bio-gas sewage and offal into fuel and top-soil, to improve agriculture, instead of raping it, life will get better for all! The day we no longer worship, or fear, or follow, the larger bodied, high calorie consuming 6'+, 250 pound+, American, and learn love and mutual respect, caloric restraint, and other philosophies of Asia and Jesus Christ, a great philosopher at least, feeding five thousand, on a miracle! life will improve! The day we follow India in its vegan ways, forsaking forced fed, corn fattened, oil dependent, unnatural, hormones injected, antibiotic laced, beef, for veggies and bean and fish proteins, and the day the U.S. patent office is short-circuited into revealing the discoveries of the modern age, through wars, or other means, like economical pressures from China, or even intellectual superiority from Chinese intelligentsia, who are no respecters of U.S. patent law anyway, life for the masses will improve! Strange, how large bodied bullies with big fists ruled the world and consumed 80% of its resources for over a Century, only to find themselves out of countries to pillage, and there homeland in ruin, wasted by corporatism as is Detroit City , the monument to Capitalism , a third world Johannesburg, right in the middle of a dying U.S.A.!

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:39:36 -0000

1 Solar’s price drops at least Three-fold every decade, and has been doing so since 1970, ie. For 40 years!

2 This year solar power reached parity with grid-delivered retail electricity to residential and commercial users if produced on large-scales, ie not just on your family’s roof, where it costs twice as much.

3 By or before 2020, Solar will be as cheap as or cheaper than Coal, Oil, Nuclear, or natural Gas (King CONG), even at point of production utility grade wholesale electricity

4 Solar’s worldwide growth rate of installation last year was 92%; it has consistently exceeded a 45% annual growth rate for a decade

5 At that growth rate, and with the continuing plummeting of the price of solar panels, Solar power will produce

Cost per 1W of solar panels

1970 $100.00

1980 $28.50

1990 $8.50

2000 $3.00

2010 $1.00 (equivalent to CONG retail electricity)

2020 $0.30 (cheaper than CONG wholesale electricity; these version 2.0 technologies are already visible)

2030 $0.10

2040 $0.03

2050 $0.01

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

tunneslofreality — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:31:07 -0000

It doesn’t take into account the inevitable Energy Streamlining which will reduce energy usage per GDP unit by 40% - 50%.

And the map assumes only the existing 20% solar panel efficiency.

Yet, already photovoltaic panels achieved 43% efficiency last week.

And combining the harvesting of both the light and the heat, a team of Australians and Chinese engineers just achieved 70% efficiency.

http://www.thetechherald.co...

If we factored in the reduction of energy usage per GDP (1/2X) as well as the higher solar panel efficiency 1/3.5X, the map should instead show 1/7th the amount of land used.

However, let us also then factor in that 5 Billion people are demanding to have Equal Watts, whose urgent needs are not being measured by current global GDP, and that the world population will grow by 50% by 2050, and we probably end up needing a little less than half the amount of solar surface area than in this map, yet serving the needs of the 10B population of Earth circa 2050 all consuming as much energy as an American.

Of course, as much as half of the needed solar panels will be on roofs of existing buildings, so not really adding any additional land cover.

If we squeezed the amount of land the whole world needed for Equal Watts for 10B people into a single US state, that would be Utah, an African country=Uganda, a Latin American country=Guyana, an Asian country=Laos, a European country=Belarus.

Further,

Super Conducting Cables which function losslessly, require 150x less copper to manufacture, and can be run underground, could transmit all of the power generated no problem.

How To send electricity across the continent, virtually For Free

-

www.maybememe.com/post/1123...

& what about all those doubting our ability to store solar/wind energy?

Here ya go...

Chinese researchers create Superbattery: 400X Li-ion & 70X standard Lithium

-

http://www.maybememe.com/po... ...

Liquid Battery Breakthrough for Large Scale Storage of Solar and Wind Power

“We’re literally looking at a battery capable of storing the grid.”

-

http://www.maybememe.com/po... ...

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:08:31 -0000

Solar pannels are a waste of money, and our time we should just stick with our oil and don't say it's running out because it's not me got a large oil feild up in Canada.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Steven Jones — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:47:43 -0000

There are 2 basic reasons why we should be seeking our own solar power source-money and self reliance. No one wants to or should be dependent upon some fanatical country(ies) or dictator(s) who controls the worlds oil supply. We as individuals can do the same. The technology exists to enable us to be independent and save money on energy costs.

Of course a site like this is probably more concerned with environmental issues and would consider that the main reason why we should seek solar above the ones mentioned above. I simply don't agree for many reasons and won't bother listing them because you probably won't agree with me either.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

kevin — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:34:23 -0000

Okay things in perspective. Designed yes that's why it all works together if you alter one thing it has an effect on something else. So, wind farms will alter weather patterns. Just like using coal, oil and other fossil fuels have caused weather problems I.E. "GLOBAL WARMING". So, I am keeping things in perspective. It only took us 200 years to get to where we are now using fossil fuels. Long term , think long term. I know we only use this for 70 or 80 yrs. But, any change to the system will have lasting effects. I thought rreaders here would understand this.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:10:32 -0000

"ut I am sure that Earth is probably using all the solar power for something. That is the way it was designed. The same goes for wind and hydro. Putting up wind farms is like a beaver damming up a stream. Slowing the wind will adversely affect people down stream and up stream from the wind dam.."

Okay, first, the Earth wasn't designed.

Second, what you said makes sense, but is only partially true. While wind farms, f.ex., do "slow down" the wind, it's infinitesimal compared to trees, mountains, buildings, etc. It certainly has less of an impact on the planet than mining and burning coal or whatever.

Same for solar. Keep things in perspective.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

kevin — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:33:50 -0000

We need to know what earth's daily solar requirement is i.e. ( earths surface temp, plant photosynthesis Changing these would greatly affect future weather patterns).. Then we can determine what is usable excess solar power . But I am sure that Earth is probably using all the solar power for something. That is the way it was designed. The same goes for wind and hydro. Putting up wind farms is like a beaver damming up a stream. Slowing the wind will adversely affect people down stream and up stream from the wind dam.. We need to become more effecient and moderate. We only have so much power in our budget if we spend more than we make we will be broke.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

dont need to know — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:23:21 -0000

It will take like a half of earth to do this its like impossible u fell me

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Phoghat — Mon, 12 May 2008 10:55:30 -0000

Many people say that solar electric would use too much land. I think they are thinking too much about centralized power generation. This morning read a story about a company making peel and stick panels for roofs that take approx. 34 minutes to install 2.5 Kw on a roof. Currently they are only doing commercial apps, but are going residential within 1 - 2 years. The company name is Lumeta.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

astronomer — Tue, 06 May 2008 04:18:47 -0000

new projects ? TURKEY

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Vicki Lee — Mon, 05 May 2008 15:55:54 -0000

Solar panels on every rooftop would surely be enough!

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

aLAN — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:28:31 -0000

I think it's just an idea how it could power the world. The thing is unless governments are putting it into act, or it's still more of an energy source for individual/private households (only so few families installed solar panels on their roofs.

Nice post :)

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Luke Macmichael — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:27:02 -0000

Great Site and great conversation. Solar is the future there is no doubt about it. My city Sault Ste Marie, Canada is putting up 60 MW on 600 acres enough for a third of the cities power. Each city, no matter how large has tons of unusable land relatively close by that could be used for things like this. Transmission, storage and cost of production materials are all technical problems that could be easily be solved if we decided to work together as a society towards the goal. Think of it as a war-time effort for a clean sustainable eath. We have the power to create a virtual utopia if we will only choose to. I can't think of anything more important that I'd rather dedicate my life too. We owe it to our children.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Rico Penguin — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:18:42 -0000

To the people saying "Who would clean these things!" I am only going to assume that you are ignoring all the people who need good paying jobs?

Entire countries full of people in or under the poverty level. Hell in the US I bet you could find hundreds of thousands of people willing to clean these things.

Fact of the matter is that the amount of land used to produce current fuel sources is far more vast than these projects would be. Plus taking into account that I imagine the amount of money poured into new forms of oil drilling could of easily discovered better forms of power conduction and retention by now.

It's a matter of capitalism and nothing more. The only reason we don't have the technology at the moment is because the people who are 'elected' (I use that term loosely because hardly anyone votes anymore...kind of pathetic) make a lot of their money from lobbyists and stocks that are in large part funded by the few massive companies that profit from inneficient energy production and distribution.

Considering fuel an efficient form is silly. The amount of gas you put in your car compared to how much is wasted as a reusable but unused exhaust is almost criminal. But since I don't have the time I'll just leave those questioning that statement to do a little research :p. Or maybe in a few days when I have a day off I'll cite a couple (credible) sources and get the ball rolling.

I like this site. I should sign up.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

PlanetThoughts.org — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:01:20 -0000

The key point is that we can replace all of the current planet energy use with a modest amount of solar paneling. If people really CARE about this, we could have the roofs of most buildings covered with paneling, for example. It is not a matter of costs, it is really a matter of priorities and urgency.

Instead, like fools some are discussing nuclear energy. Once again, lobbyists endowed with money and contacts may hijack the path to a better future.

Specifically, yes, solar power generation will need to be more widely disbursed, and will not always be in ideal high-sun locations. On the other hand, it will require little space in the great scheme of things. 180 sq. meters per person is way off. We need to see the full calculation, but that number is based on errors as I know the total for the world is roughly 90 mi x 90 mi to replace all energy.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Jonathan — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 00:59:18 -0000

Extremely large mirrors directed at a pipe to heat up, use steam power and desalinate water? That is what Spain is doing, and it seems to work pretty well.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

renewable energy land — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:59:33 -0000

Nice map. Solar power starts with solar power. I am interested in the economic incentives for renewable energy.

In the US right now, tax money is spent on many legacy fossil fuel projects. If and when these are eliminated, what conversion efficiency is needed to make solar financially viable? What price for oil?

Thanks.

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Carol Wright — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:26:09 -0000

I like the idea of solar, wind, rainwater harvesting, wave power, and even pedal power.

I don't have the resources to buy and try out all the ideas-tho I think they would all be good to support.

I don't know enough about any of them well. I read you have to keep the panels clean, so that would mean on the ground for me, cause heights are not my thing. I like the idea of saving rain water and saving snow from those carports that are tarp like-so one can slide the snow off and save it, to melt when one needs the water. I wish we could recycle water more too.

I would like windmills/turbines to be designed for rain drops too- for power.

it's comforting that there is new technology.

I was never good in Science but would that mean

that having dark paenls could cause more troubles or would it be better to have white and dark panels for certain times of the year?

The concept that the ice is melting in the north because the ocean is radiating dark, so everything is melting. When the icebergs weren't melting the climate was radiating white and the area stayed cooler.

I'm one of those that get upset when thousands lose power to their homes. If people started saving and changing their homes so they had power from solar, wind, water then when the power goes out not everyone has lost their power. I think we should go more individual and not have thousands lose power because of a tree fallen down, or an accident happened and power has to be restored.

It's expensive to think that way-but to have back ups, if one could do all- wouldn't it be worth it? To have control over power for our homes and business.

Not to say, I don't like our service providers I do, but we have lost power many times,and food has gone to waste, and homework hasn't always gotten finished, etc. Do we have to be so dependent on the way it has always been? When the prices are reasonable, I think more people would like to have control of their power use and to use what's best for their lifestyle by the choices bought.

Thanks for the site TreeHugger.

Carol

Re: How Much Land to Power The Whole World with Solar?

Mammatus — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:18:38 -0000

Is there any discussion of the likely catastrophic impact of covering millions of acres of land with an impervious surface of a solar panel?

I cannot begin to imagine what that would to do the environment/ecology of these areas.