Treehugger - Latest Comments in Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Joe — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:39:15 -0000

"We do not need a message that your life to could be ruined by failing to see a rapidly moving bicycle in a 2x3 inch mirror that covers only a limited amount of area."

How about by not checking your blind spot? In any driver education class, they teach that rear view mirrors should never be the only reference to find out what's behind you. Does that just go out the window once you're parked? Isn't a human life worth turning your head and looking over you shoulder? If that's too much work, how about cracking the door open a couple inches while your unfastening your safety belt? It's no substitution for looking behind you, but at least it's a warning to the people you can't be bothered to actually watch for.

After a quick glance in the mirror, some people have no hesitation to just THROW their doors open. The bigger the door and the further into the road it would fly, the more mass they have to overcome and the more likely they are to throw it open and the faster they will throw it. It's as if insurance would cover any chance damage to their door and that was their only concern. It's cars that will take off your door and they're easy to see, so why make any extra effort for cyclists? The fines for killing a cyclist are less than most insurance deductibles, and if you kill a cyclist with your car door, you won't even have to be inconvenienced by having to take your car in for repairs.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Gloria — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:55:33 -0000

This is a tough one. Cyclist should have their own seperate lane. Drivers need to be careful double checking openeing the doors. Drivers should be punished-life long community service, for opening a door without watching and killing someone. Cyclist need to slow down and be more watchful when near cars too.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Jes Spencer — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:59:37 -0000

Y'know, my parents always taught me to look before opening my door, if nothing else then to make sure cars weren't coming...

but then again my parents always taught me to lock the door before I leave the house, and plenty of people don't do that either.

there are way too many people without common sense out there.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

quinn — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:08:08 -0000

I think Andy said it best above when describing responsibilities that belong to cyclists. I never cycle close to cars, much in the same way you wouldn't ride through a crowd of people -- you never know what will happen.

As a driver, I believe it is my right to have the zone around my vehicle where its safe for me to exit my car (I have been both car door-ed and have been hit by a cyclist as I got out of my car).

There is no way in my thinking for anyone to logically argue that a cyclist (or any other moving vehicle) to be passing within a door width of a car.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Sean — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:12:38 -0000

Living in Baltimore, I can tell you that the majority of cyclists I have observed in the streets have no regard whatsoever for traffic law, weave in and out of lanes and cars, and zoom up along parked (and moving cars) at unsafe speeds. Clearly, we need bike lanes, we need car drivers to be more aware, and we need cyclists to take a bit more responsibility for their own negligence and recklessness.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Sean — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:34:50 -0000

"Who doesn't look out the door?" Most people, I'd imagine. I rarely drive in cars but when I do, I often catch myself not looking. It's a bad habit and I know better. But I'm no exception -- this is very common behavior.

That, of course, doesn't make it right. However, I see very few measured responses. We're all riled up and ready to "get her", as one person said. Shouldn't we be more thoughtful and sophisticated in addressing this issue? It's a little too endemic to write one driver off as an evil and burn her at the stake. We bare some responsibility as a collective.

We have failed to:

- Provide sufficient awareness of the problem

- Create transportation structures that make bicycling safer

Are we not negligent (or worse!), too?

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Cameron — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:39:06 -0000

This woman should be charged with a lot more. There are plenty of people in cars on the roads that make simple mistakes such as not seeing pedestrians when turning corners and the like that are charged with involuntary manslaughter etc. Why should she be any different..

Either way, charges or no, this is something the driver of the car will suffer personally for the rest of her life and the personal guilt she'll carry will likely outweigh any prison sentence.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

AtariJedi — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:58:39 -0000

This just goes to show that car manufacturers need to install vertically opening doors, or sliding doors!

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:58:44 -0000

Someone died. That is a horrible and emotional event, and if you have something in common with that individual it just makes the events hit that much harder.

I think is horrible that someone died but I don't think that her actions should lead to her imprisonment. Another life shouldn't be ruined by something that is a symptom of a greater problem. Someone dying should be enough of a public message that things need to change, certainly when the cause is not an isolated incident. We do not need a message that your life to could be ruined by failing to see a rapidly moving bicycle in a 2x3 inch mirror that covers only a limited amount of area. In the end this just address a single part of the problem.

Bicycling on roads that do not accommodate for their use, comes with alot of risks. Sharing those roads with cars that weigh in the tons means that something as simple as someone opening a car door could mean a life threatening accident. Only by altering the existing infrastructure to go above and beyond being just bike friendly can these problems be eliminated.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Andy — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:41:00 -0000

I'm a cyclist myself, and I don't own a car, but I think us cyclists need to be more aware of this too. For one, I never ride within door swinging distance of cars. I have read too much about Door Prizes and seen Ghost Bikes to know better. I live in a small city, and I am appalled by the vast majority of cyclists here because they ride in the crosswalks through red lights in busy intersections, and ride on the sidewalks more than on the roads.

If cyclists learned to ride in the road in a safe manner, incidents like these would happen much less. For some reason many people believe that riding on the shoulders in dense traffic is safer, when it almost never is. Out in the rural areas it's fine, but if cars are parked on the sides I ride in the left of middle in a lane where I know people will see me better than if I'm hugging the side and the parked cars.

Someone told me (about cycling), "It's better to be perceived as obnoxious than not perceived at all."

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Joe kaffir — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:07:49 -0000

Sure, just shoot the bitch and then stomp on her bloody dead corpse for revenge. That'll teach her never to do anything wrong for the rest of her life and just for good measure, shoot her family too!

Our how about forcing all drivers to enter and exit their cars through the window. Now that would make a great Benny Hill sketch, don't you think?

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

jena — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:06:52 -0000

I know laws differ in Canada, but if this had happened in America, and the victims family had a spectacular lawyer, and the judge was sympathetic (lots of ifs, I know) then they might have been able to charge the driver with murder. Here if a crime is commited and some one dies in the comission of that crime, that death could be ruled a fellony murder. If she was in fact charged with impropper vehicle door opening, and was found guilty of it, one could argue that that was a crime. I don't know if any one could make that stick though. Maybe if someone DID, we'd see fewer car-door related bicycle deaths and injuries. Also maybe I need to lay off the Law & Order.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Emily — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:04:20 -0000

Negligence. Who doesn't look out the door?

I hope she has guilt. I hope she fully understands what the cost of her rushing was.

Not being familiar with Canadian laws, that's all I'll say. I hope she realizes what it is that she did. And I hope she takes it upon herself to try and make it better.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Mike D — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:58:10 -0000

The trucker wouldn't be facing serious charges if she had stepped out in front of him don't exaggerate to make your point seem more valid. The fault would have been put on the woman for jumping out in front of a truck!

The statement that "the punishment should fit the crime" is a little off because her crime wasn't really the result of the crime. Her crime is opening the door, that's the crime. What she should have been punished for though is man slaughter because the result other crime was someone's death. Now I don't know what the publicity on this problem is, if its not that strong then people really shouldn't be expected to know about it and she shouldn't face any jail time but either way the result of this incident should be publicity of the problem not harsh punishment of this person who probably didn't even know about the problem

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Mox Rogers — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:42:35 -0000

This makes me so sad to read about, and the fact that it happens often enough to have a nickname (Door Prize) for it is just terrible. People look out for other cars when they check to change lanes or to open their door, but not for motorcycles or bicycles.

Honestly, I think the least that she should be charged with is involuntary manslaughter. She was OBVIOUSLY negligent. She neglected to check before opening her door. What if she had neglected to check her rearview mirror before backing up and had run over a child? There would be a much bigger fuss being made about it then.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Courtney — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:25:41 -0000

I think it should be manslaughter or something along those lines. To me it's equal to saying, "Oh I didn't see that little kid in front of my car" when someone hits a child.

A $110 fine? Seriously?

If I was on a busy street, I'd certainly check to see if it was safe to open my door, whether it was to check for another car,a person, or a cyclist.

I hope the family brings a civil suit against the woman. She deserves punishment.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Fred — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:14:38 -0000

You know it's well and good to get angry about this, but there are a number of practical reasons why it's not going to get fixed soon. First, people on the driver's side of the car often can't get out on the other side. It's not just a convenient way out, it's often the only way out.

Second, bike riders aren't big and wide. They often blend right into the background.

Bike riders can get as angry as they want. Legislatures can pass all the laws they want. Until we re-engineer the world for bicycles, the laws of physics will trump them all.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Bram — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:53:47 -0000

Erhm. It's called Involuntary Manslaughter.. (although it has various names in various places). If your actions or inactions lead to someone's death, "the full extent of the law" is quite a bit more severe than a pathetic little fine.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Scott Newsom — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:49:32 -0000

When the law doesn't provide justice, people will take the law into their own hands. This is part of the philosophical basis for the aspect of law that punishes illegal behavior beyond what is necessary to stop the behavior in a particular person. It may be time to start reminding the law that cyclists are people too and when pushed far enough, we will act as other people too. Being too civilized just gets us killed and the murderers will continue to go free.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Alex Gordon — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:26:48 -0000

Cyclists simply shouldn't be on roads, they have no protection from the tonnes of metal all around them! Roads are very dangerous places, you wouldn't sprint along the road wearing a helmet, so why cycle on them? The few times I've nearly been run over as a pedestrian, have always been by a cyclist. They can be going so fast, do not respect the traffic lights and cycle the wrong way down one way streets! That may not be the case in the US, but that's how it is here in London. When you see them weaving through the cars it's a wonder more haven't died. An English friend of mine died in a road traffic accident in the states earlier this year, the driver behind had rammed into the back of their vehicle and they lost control of the car. As the front passenger, he died from being partially ejected out the window. The lady driving behind WASN'T CHARGED. It's not always easy to see cyclists, I would never cycle on the streets of London and I wouldn't let any of my family. I sold my car a year ago and now rely on public transport and walking, I'm not damaging the environment and I'm not putting my life at risk by being on busy roads with just my skin to protect me.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Robert Rowe — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:18:44 -0000

Why wouldn't this fall under vehicular manslaughter like any other careless driving fatality? I'm not sure of the differences between the different charges, but "Open Door Improperly"?

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Christopher Miller — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:13:40 -0000

And just yesterday (July 3), a woman was knocked off her bike by a door flying open on busy St-Denis street in Montreal, fell under a car, and was dragged several metres. The last news reported has her in hospital in critical condition. When will we get universal safe bike lanes on all major arteries, rather than the lanes that are routed along small and out of the way streets as far as the municipal authorities can take that track?

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Adam Knapp — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:42:40 -0000

You could always get her in the civil courts.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

imHighlander — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:30:16 -0000

I've ridden in lots of big cities in the U.S. and I can't imagine less cycling-friendly city than my native Oklahoma City. The simple fact is that cyclists MUST remember that we are invisible. In lots of places cycling is an aberration, so drivers don't know how to react when (or if they ever) see a cyclist.

We should all be held responsible for our actions, regardless of our intent. As I tell my kids when they've erred: "I'm glad you are 'sorry'; but an apology (or regret) doesn't get you out of the consequences of your action."

The driver screwed up. It just as easily could have been my wife or me or anyone else. But civility demands that we accept the consequences of our actions, however severe, regardless of whether we "meant" to do it, and regardless how "sorry" or "shaken" we are.

Re: Door Prize Lady Charged "To The Full Extent of the Law"

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:05:16 -0000

While I agree that more people driving should pay attention to cyclist on the road, I just get irritated when I see news like this for 1 reason... everyone blames the driver... while i agree they are partially responsible, however... NOT ALL... but many cyclist are partially responsible as well.

I was nearly caught giving a door prize. I had parked my car, i looked behind me and did not see anything, i checked my mirror and did not see anything, I go and start opening my door slowly when i catch a glimps of something in my mirror, i immediately close my door... the guy was going very fast. Now If I was driving my car that fast next to parked cars and hit a door... would i not be charged with careless driving? anyhow the guy hit his brakes and comes to a stop 2 cars ahead of me and then comes back to start yelling at me... how I am not watching where I am going. I yelled back that he was going too fast and should be more careful around parked cars as people with common sense would do... the guy took 3 full car lenghts to stop. he came closer armed with fists, I got in my car and locked the doors and proceeded in dialing 911 which he ran off on his bike.

Much like cars and motorcycles, cyclists should obey certain rules and laws which are not enforced.